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The Gotwind Forum • View topic - Ultimate Mechatronic Glen controller!!!

Ultimate Mechatronic Glen controller!!!

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weevic

Posts: 55

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:33 am

Post Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:28 pm

Ultimate Mechatronic Glen controller!!!

I was thinking this evening about the ultimate system for solar lighting and control.....

Here goes...

The Ultimate Glen controller!!!

Say 12 or 24 volt..

During the day....
1 - Batteries charge up to 14.1 volt and glens controller dumps the load..
well it does that!!!

During the evening!!!
2 - Glens controller switches on the garden lights using a relay and light dependant resistor to swithc on the garden lights at night..

During the night...

3 - Glens controller then senses the batteries and switches the power off to the lights at around 10+ volts to stop the batteries discharging...

Early in the morning..

4 - Lights are switched off by the Light dependant resistor to save battery power as there is enough morning light in the garden..

5 - The system works 24/7 mechatronically without the aid of human control..

The ultimate glen controller?

What do you want out of a controller?? Is this idea got all the features you would like?
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weevic

Posts: 55

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:33 am

Post Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:33 pm

Re: Ultimate Mechatronic Glen controller!!!

Has low voltage disconnet been looked into as a simple circuit to stop people batteries getting heavy discharge?

Can this be added to a circuit together with the dump load?

I believe the twilight switch idea might have to have its own power supply to work properly...

Just all ideas spinning abround in my head this evening....
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microgreen

Junior

Posts: 102

Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:43 pm

Location: UK, Essex

Post Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:46 pm

Re: Ultimate Mechatronic Glen controller!!!

You could just buy one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10A-Solar-Panel-C ... 1c18dce5d5

£12.99 inc postage. Uses the solar panels themselves as the sensor for turning on lights when dark

I have been using one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/12-24V-10A-Solar- ... 27b0321d19

So far its been in use for around 6 months hooked up to 30w of solar pv, a 70AH battery and powers some outside lights on the driveway.
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microgreen

Junior

Posts: 102

Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:43 pm

Location: UK, Essex

Post Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:49 pm

Re: Ultimate Mechatronic Glen controller!!!

Just to add, the one feature I would like is an adjustable low voltage disconnect.
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weevic

Posts: 55

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:33 am

Post Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:22 am

Re: Ultimate Mechatronic Glen controller!!!

Thanks for your help Microgreen.

I agree that a low voltage disconnect is a thing that is well needed!!!

If I had this additional to the glenn controller in one package it would be ideal..

I`m going to get back into making some things up in the next few weeks.
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Skaface

User avatar

Posts: 13

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:29 pm

Location: Birmingham England

Post Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:21 pm

Re: Ultimate Mechatronic Glen controller!!!

Hi Guys,

Have any of you got a copy of Do It Yourself 12v Solar Power by Michel Daniek?

There are two circuits in there for deep discharge regulators & two charge controlers. Both look to be very simple circuits. Even I didn't faint looking at them which is unusual :lol: The cut off voltage can be user selected using a variable resister (pot).

The book is a little out of date, but it still has loads of ideas I've not seen anywhere else that are still usefull. By the way I have no connection with the author or publisher before I get shot :lol:

One thing I've been wondering for a while (sorry to hijack the thread but its sorta relevant) is why there are heaps of 6 & 9 volt panels around & no 6v charge controlers? I was wondering if it would be a simple job to convert a charge controler to 6 volts? Also with so many DC permanent magnet motors around said to be useless because because they barely make 12 volts isn't it time 6v got a look in. I've figured that my uses for my RE power could quite happily work on 6v, charging phone/MP3 player, lighting & radio/music in the man cave. AA battery charging should also be possible, just in smaller amounts.

Nige
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microgreen

Junior

Posts: 102

Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:43 pm

Location: UK, Essex

Post Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:49 pm

Re: Ultimate Mechatronic Glen controller!!!

Hi Nige,

The book sounds interesting, would you be able to scan in the circuits and post them?

Ghurds (Glen) controller is also fairly simple:

http://www.ghurd.info/

I would like to build one myself but I just dont have the time, hence spending a few punds on a ready made Chinese made controller on ebay.

Small panels and batteries at 6v probably dont need a controller. Or you could get away with an very simple zener diode for preventing overcharge on really small stuff.

For anything approaching a decent size you really need to be working at 12v, or maybe even 24v for reduced cable losses.
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Skaface

User avatar

Posts: 13

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:29 pm

Location: Birmingham England

Post Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:28 am

Re: Ultimate Mechatronic Glen controller!!!

Hi Microgreen,

Errr sorry, much though I would love to post the circuits in the aid of helping my fellow man, there is the thorny issue of copyright to deal with. Lets just say its not too disimilar in complexity & component count than GHurds.

Whilst your probebly right on my 6v idea regarding cable losses & the risk of over charging, I was only planning to do it on a very small scale anyway. Having looked at my uses of power it seems rather in efficent to generate 12+ volts & then throw 50% of it away to charge via USB at 5.1 volts.

I'm begining to fall more into the survivalist/prepairdness/Off Grid catagory than trying to be green. Iam trying to be green honest and spend considerable amounts of time at home & work to improve things one step at a time, but a reliable source of energy for life's little essentials is the area of most interest to me, as well as using old & forgotten ways of doing without technology.

I attend as many scooter rallys & ride outs as I can a year on my Vespa, sometimes at the opposite end of the country. The need to charge or have access to power for a phone comes as quite a high priority. I can currently take my Duracel charger with me & use its USB output to charge my phone, but once that has been used I'm without power! I could use the 12v battery in my scooter for power, but once its flat the horn will no longer work, not that they ever really did on Vespa's :lol:
The small Solar phone charger I recently got from Aldi takes 45 hours to charge by sun light :shock:
Not much use when one of your club is in need of an ambulance in the middle of nowhere. If it could happen than my luck has shown me it will & it will most likely be serious!


Oooh sorry, seem to have gone off on one there :lol:

Nige
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Fish4Fun

Junior

Posts: 273

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:27 pm

Location: NC USA

Post Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:54 pm

Re: Ultimate Mechatronic Glen controller!!!

LDO Regulators (Low Drop Out Regulators) are cheap and abundant, but require a bit of knowledge to implement. As mentioned for solar panels < ~10W a simple zener will prevent over charging. Replacing a relay with an SCR or FET will save you some power. Going to lithium-ion batteries or even a capacitor bank will eliminate the need to worry about deep discharge cycles. You might consider a "timer" that "turns on after dark" and then stays on for some preset period of time (say 6 hours).

For LED based projects and small solar panels capacitor storage is becoming a reality. With capacitors in the 2.3V to 5.5V range values of 5F to 300F are becoming readily available and getting cheaper every day. I will make a post with the math and what it means when I get some time, but the bottom line is that capacitors hold a lot of promise to the "Green LED lighting" crowd; virtually no losses, long life and tons of potential.

Oh heck, let's do it real quick....

Q = CV
U = 1/2CV^2

Where:
Q = Charge in Columbs
C = Capacitance in Farads
V = Voltage in Volts
U = Energy in Jules

If we have an LED rated for 2.3V and 30mA how long could we light it with a 2.7V 200F capacitor? LED voltage ratings and current ratings are really a complex, non-linear relationship. The short version is that an LED will draw more current than 30mA if placed across a 2.3V source. The amount of light an LED will output is also a non-linear function of the current. In practice current is limited with a series resistor for a nominal voltage. If we assume 90% of the LED's light output will be achieved @ 20mA (a reasonable assumption) and our maximum voltage will be 2.7V, then our series resistor would need to be:

2.7V-2.3V = 0.020A * R ==> R = 20 ohms

Our capacitor, when fully charged to 2.7V will have:

U = 1/2 * 200F * 2.7^2 = 729J

Assuming the LED will dim considerably @ V < 2.0V, the energy in the capacitor @ 2V will be:

U = 1/2 * 200F * 2^2 = 400J

The amount of useful energy would then be 729J - 400J = 329J

Our LED power consumption should average ~ 2.3V * 0.020A = 46mW

Watts are defined as Joules/Second, so 46mW would be .046J/Second, so 329J/(.046J/Second) = 7152 seconds or roughly 2 hours of "full brightness". This is actually a conservative estimate and assumes "constant power to the LED." A simple switching circuit that turned the LED on and off could increase the run time by as much as a factor of 3 or 4 (6 to 8 hours).

Now, if we took two of these 200F 2.7V capacitors and placed them in series (now 100F @ 5.4V) and re-calculated:

5.4V - 2.3V = 3.1V 3.1v = 0.020 * R ==> R = 155 Ohms

U = 1/2 * 100 * 5.4^2 = 1458J
U = 1/2 * 100 * 2^2 = 200J

1458J - 200J = 1258J

1258J/0.046W = 31,695 Seconds ==> 8.8 hours.

Again, there are numerous approximations involved, a formal analysis would take into account the power lost in the resistor, and the change in power as the voltage decreased over time, but I think you get the idea. In both cases the use of an active electronic current controller would greatly extend the run time.

It is important to note that the energy stored in a capacitor is a function of the square of the voltage. Obviously high energy density favors higher voltage. A 200F 2.4V capacitor is capable of storing the same amount of energy as a 2F 24V capacitor (576J)! It is interesting to note that two equal capacitors placed in series have 1/2 the capacitance of either capacitor alone; however, the energy stored by the two in series => C * V^2 this is an increase of 50% (that is, as you would expect, there is twice the energy stored in two capacitors than there is in one). What changes is the amount of USEFUL energy that is stored. The trick is to use an active circuit to utilize a wide range of capacitor voltages with particular attention to the "upper voltage region" where the highest energy density resides.

One simple circuit to maintain "constant brightness" over a wide voltage range is to use PWM (Pulse Width Modulation". Lets say we have a "base frequency" of 100hz (the LED turns "on and off" 100 times a second). Using a simple active circuit, we can vary the length of time the LED remains in the "on" cycle based on the supply voltage. At high voltage the LED may have a duty cycle of 1% (or 0.01 * 0.01 = 100uS). Toward the middle of the Voltage range it may have a duty cycle of 50% (or 0.01 * 0.50 = 5mS). Near the end of the Voltage range it may have a duty cycle of 100%, or 10mS. Without wasting power in a resistor (power loss in the resistor = I^2 * R), the "apparent brightness" of the LED can remain constant over a defined voltage range, thus extending the run time considerably.

Even a few years ago a 10F capacitor was a very expensive piece of lab equipment, but the advances in capacitors has led to 10F to 1000F capacitors relatively cheap and easy to find. As 100F to 10,000F capacitors in the 10V to 50V range become available, storing solar energy in them will emerge; how we utilize that energy needs to be as carefully thought out as collecting and storing the energy, and LED lighting is an area well-suited for the task.

Fish
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Skaface

User avatar

Posts: 13

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:29 pm

Location: Birmingham England

Post Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:09 am

Re: Ultimate Mechatronic Glen controller!!!

Hi Fish,

I have to admit I have zero experience with these super & ultra capacitors so went on a bit of a googling mission. This looks like an interesting area for experimentation.

Found this article that may prove useful for anyone else wanting a play
http://www.los-gatos.ca.us/davidbu/sola ... ights.html

I've been looking for something similar for a garden lighting project idea I had

Nige

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